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Heat Treating and Metallurgy Discussion of heat treatment and metallurgy in knife making.

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  #1  
Old 02-07-2011, 09:09 PM
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O1 and hamon line

Ive never used O1 I got a blade I just made out of 3/16 by 2 inch flat O1.can I differentail harden this blade an will the O1 show the hamon line.I did it out of 1095 and cam out nice .and will the 01 make a better blade?????
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Old 02-07-2011, 11:21 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Differential hardening of O1 would be difficult to pull off as it is a deep hardening steel but you could do a selective tempering by drawing tempering the spine of the blade. It would be unusual if it were to display a hamon for the same reason. As far as making a better blade, that's rather a subjective question. Better for what. With the chromium and tungsten it will be through hardening and will end up harder and have more tensil strength and more wear resistance due to the carbides formed from those elements. The trade off is that it will be less flexable and more prone to brittle failure than the 1095 so it would probably not be as good a choice for a blade made for heavy chopping. It also would not be the steel that I would choose to do the ABS performance test with as it would be less likely to perform the 90 degree bend without breaking. It would probably be a better choice for something like a skinner with a three or four inch blade because, all other things being equal, O1 would hold an edge a little longer than the 1095 which only has cementite for a carbide, the softest carbide that we're involved with.

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Old 02-08-2011, 12:22 AM
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thats what I was making was a skinning knife for a friend .not worried about brittlness he just wants it to stay sharp..ive been doing damascus blades out of 1095 and oil hardening them ,havent used eny o1 is the hardening the same ?? and I quess I will just polish this blade since I cant get the hamon line to show..
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:59 AM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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I don't know what you tempered the 1095 at but I'd probably go to 425 for the O1. If the blade was going to be used pretty much for skinning out game you might even go to 400 and raise the hardness a little. Of course these are just starting points that are likely to work. You will still need to do testing to see if you have a good ballance between toughness and hardness.

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Old 02-08-2011, 10:01 AM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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I don't know what you tempered the 1095 at but I'd probably go to 425 for the O1. If the blade was going to be used pretty much for skinning out game you might even go to 400 and raise the hardness a little. Of course these are just starting points that are likely to work. You will still need to do testing to see if you have a good ballance between toughness and hardness. I would not recommend a fine polish on a blade that will be a user, the finish will not hold up. I would suggest that you do a satin finish with Scotch Brite pads or belts.

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Old 02-08-2011, 10:54 AM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Let me ammend my first reply about differential hardening O1. Due to a brain f**t I ignored edge quenching. Reading another post reminded me of it. That would produce differential hardening but I still doubt that it would achieve a hamon. However, that leads to a question. What do you propose to achieve by differential hardening or selective tempering a short blade that is intended to be primarily a slicer? Yes, it is possible to do either of those but to what ends. A blade like that is not likely to be exposed to the types of stress that makes a soft spine funtional. I don't know if it is the case here but a lot of beginners think that the because a test knife for the ABS performance test is required to have a soft spine that can survive abuse without breaking that a soft spine is required for a superior blade. I know that this was very much the case with me when I started out. This test is not a test of the knife, it is a test of the knifesmith. It shows the ability of the smith to produce a blade with specific characteristics. In this case a chopping blade that has very good edge retention, a certain blade geometry, and a soft spine that will resist breaking.

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Old 02-08-2011, 10:16 PM
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One might also try differential hardening using a torch. Tricky, but there are those who have successfully developed the technique. Don't know myself if it has been done with O1. Has indeed been done with steels requiring similar HT.


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Old 02-09-2011, 08:52 PM
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I was only trying to get the hamon line on these blade because had a friend who seen the one I did out of 1095 and wanted one but with a different handle .so I thought I might be able to do one with the O1 ,but then found out its a deep hardening steel so just did a brine quench and tempered at 400 for 1 hour .tried to polish one and farric clorided the other to give dark finesh and oiled both came out nice .the one I polished I did the brine quench,the dark one I hardened in oil wanted to see which one holds the better edge .Ive been oil quenching all my blades and this was the first I brine quenched ..I read that you could oil or brine quench the O1 .the brine quenched blade that I polished hassome cloudiness that wont come out I think my brine wasent warn enough..not sure just fixing to start sharpening both blades........
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:52 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Nothing succeeds like success but there are those on these boards who wouldn't recommend brine for water hardening steels like the 10XX or W series due to the thin cross sections that we deal with. The exception would be that oil wasn't quenching hard enough. There have also been a few around who are rather enamored with water and brine quenching and they'd probably try to them to quench anything that was air hardening. If you want to continue with water/'brine quenching watch for any stress risers in your blades and be prepared for more than the average broken blades. I see that you're trying them both ways, which is good. Just keep an open mind.

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Old 02-09-2011, 11:26 PM
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just got through sharpening the brine quenched blade and have to say that it took a very good edge .tommorow I will sharpen the oil quenched blade and then see which holds the better edge.. need to ask to ive done a 1095 blade that showed a nice hamon line.what steel would show the best hamon??? I have a bunch of 1080.I know the 1080 gets alot darker on my damascus blades..and does 15n20 make a good blade by itself?????
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:31 AM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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I've seen some great hamons with the 1095 the Aldo Bruno, aka The New Jersey Steel Baron, carries. From what I understand the 1080 sould work fine though I read a post by a Mastersmith that something like 1060 would give the strongest hamon. If it were me, I'd just try the 1080 and see how it looks.

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Old 02-10-2011, 10:08 AM
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thanks Doug for all your help Im learning something new everyday and loving every minete of it..thanks again..
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