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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 07-13-2003, 07:42 PM
Philip Lee Philip Lee is offline
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Differential quench

Hi All,

I am interested in doing some differential quenching on my blades. While quenching what if i was to quench with edge in only and leave the rest of the blade out until completely cool. What will happen to rest of the blade?. Will it become springy?

Philip Lee
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  #2  
Old 07-13-2003, 07:56 PM
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GANNMADE GANNMADE is offline
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there's been a debate on that .I still temper the whole blade after edge quenching.400 degrees in a kitchin oven .


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  #3  
Old 07-13-2003, 07:57 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Edge quenching is a common way to get a hard edge and a soft back. Done correctly, it can result in a very tough knife.

It takes practice to get exactly the temper you want on the back of the blade. If you let the knife cool with the back out of the oil it will generally be fairly soft - softer that spring hard. Still a tough knife but not springy. To get springy you will have to hold the back out of the oil for a while and then let it down into the oil before it gets totally cooled off. Some guys will try to tell you what shade of red the steel should be but that's too subjective so all I will say is, the steel will still have some color in the back though maybe not much.

Practice, practice, practice.....
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Old 07-13-2003, 09:37 PM
Philip Lee Philip Lee is offline
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Thanks Ray
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Old 07-14-2003, 07:40 PM
Philip Lee Philip Lee is offline
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Smile

Hi Ray,

When you say some colour on the back, are you talking about something off red hot colour. I heat my oil up to 150F. Is there a time sequence say in seconds i can work with.

Say if i was successful, what is the easiest way to to create temper lines keeping to my cheapie theme.
regards.

philip
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Old 07-14-2003, 09:33 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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No time limit I can give - what might work for me in my frigid climate probably wouldn't work in your tropical climate. No matter what anyone tells you concerning specific times or colors it won't necessarily be that way for you. But, if there is still color in the steel then you know we are talking about some short period of time.

The biggest secret to temper lines I have found is in using the right steel. So far, 1084 looks good to me for a sharply defined hamon. Quenching in water will give more of a temper line than quenching in oil but more of your blades will fracture in the attempt. Also, clay hardening seems to be a very good way to get a good hamon but that also takes a lot of experimentation. It's all trial and error. You can find several old threads where these things have been discussed at length in this forum....
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Old 07-14-2003, 10:00 PM
Philip Lee Philip Lee is offline
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Ray ,

I was wanting to know what type of household or commercial acide i need to wipe or soak the blade in to give a good temper line.

Philip
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Old 07-14-2003, 11:46 PM
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Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
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Edge Quench....

If your edge quenching........ferric chloride is an excellent media to bring out the temper line. Hand sand to at least 400, making sure you get rid of ALL the "shadow scratches" and then clean the blade well with acetone or other good cleaner. Mix the ferric Chloride (PCB archer etchant from radio shack) 3 to 1 with distilled water, and soak the clean blade for a couple of minutes. Afterwards clean the blade by scrubbing it with #0000 steel wool and soapy water. Dry and oil immediately. The temper line should be bold and easily seen. For a more refined look, lighly polish the blade with Flitz or other quality metal polish.


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Old 07-15-2003, 03:27 PM
Philip Lee Philip Lee is offline
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Thanks Ed.
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  #10  
Old 07-15-2003, 11:34 PM
David Peterson David Peterson is offline
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What a great thread. I was going to post about this exact subject, but saw there was one already started. I've been using the tips I've found on these forums to get some nice lines on my blades. I just finished one last weekend. I used vegetable oil heated to 125 degrees (candy thermometer), and 1095 steel. I tried etching in cider vinegar, but didn't like the effect. I then just sanded it down to 1500 grit and got a nicely visible line.





I have a little more work to get it just right, but I really like the effect I get. The tips here are great, and I want to thank you guys for sharing.

-Dave
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  #11  
Old 07-15-2003, 11:41 PM
Philip Lee Philip Lee is offline
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Hi Dave,

Greetings from the South Pacific Island of Fiji.

So what chemical or chemicals did you used to bring out the temper lines?

Philip
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  #12  
Old 07-15-2003, 11:48 PM
Philip Lee Philip Lee is offline
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Sorry, i missed the last part of your reply. So apple cider is ok.

I am going to use Hydrchloric acid watered down for mine.

Bye
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  #13  
Old 07-16-2003, 04:15 PM
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I think vinagar and salt makes hydrochloric acid. Freezing the vinagar and useing what don't freeze is stronger. Heating the vinagar makes it stronger. Straight vinager is a nice slow,safe way to etch. At room temp. 8-10-12-24 hrs. in solution is the norm. Check regularly, wash blade with a 3M pad and water. return to vinagar until you get the results you want. Etching in a water glass lets you watch the progress. A short etch after final polish leaves a nice satin grey that resists rust.


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Old 07-16-2003, 07:34 PM
Philip Lee Philip Lee is offline
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So if i warm the vinegar it will be faster yes.


Nice stamp by the way.
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  #15  
Old 07-16-2003, 10:08 PM
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Yes, any acid works faster when it's warm. But, a faster etch isn't always the best looking etch. If the acid is too active then it works too much on both pieces of steel (the hard part and the soft part of the blade) and you get a very low contrast.....
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