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  #1  
Old 08-21-2016, 12:23 AM
iandev iandev is offline
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Info on these 2 vintage Randalls please.

Hello Randall experts. I have 2 vintage knives a model 2-5" and a model 8-4". I believe the model 2 was made in the late 50's and the model 8 early 60's. Information pertaining to their value and anything in general would be extremely helpful.

See attached images.

Thank you,
Ian
Attached Images
File Type: jpg randall mod 2 5.JPG (128.0 KB, 55 views)
File Type: jpg randall mod 8 4.JPG (117.5 KB, 51 views)

Last edited by iandev; 08-21-2016 at 02:38 AM.
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  #2  
Old 08-21-2016, 01:24 PM
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Jacknola Jacknola is offline
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I think the m-2 is more likely earlier 1950s based on spacers and Heiser stamp. The sheath is unusual because it is a "b" with older style Heiser stamp AND with model and length numbers. This knife vintage is much more in Ron's territory than mine. Bill and Sam G may also have good opinions as do others who lurk more than post. Of note, the type 1 blade stamp seems to be standard size, not the small one.

I can't tell much about other knife because of small, low resolution photos. This is the result of posting pictures using the board internal site rather than use photobucket type individual photo hosting site. I think it may be between 1963 (baby-dot Johnson sheath) and 1966 (type 1 blade stamp). If the handle is Micarta, the color could affect value and sharpen age estimate. If handle is ebony it could affect the way knife is viewed by collectors. Handle material and details cannot be seen clearly in these pictures.

I dont know enough to estimate current value. Market for vintage knives has softened quite a bit the last few years unless it is something truly unusual. These are nice old knives but not necessarily special. The M-2 is probably worth maybe 50% more than other depending on what vintage is established. Check E-bay for up to date value of equivalent vintage Randall value.

Last edited by Jacknola; 08-21-2016 at 08:15 PM.
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  #3  
Old 08-21-2016, 02:23 PM
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Jacknola Jacknola is offline
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One other comment. The m-2 has obviously been carried, handled, in the field (?) quite a bit. I cannot think of a good reason to carry a 2-5 except in a military context. I think I remember that these "letter opener" 2-5s with this type hilt were pretty popular during Korea era. Documented carry during war time, even if rear area, air asset, truck driver in theatre, etc adds to knife value considerably.

One other note: the m-8 handle and sheath shows evidence of lots of use. However blade seems unusually good, no evidence of rust, discoloration, etc. Pending seeing some decent pictures, blade could be stainless (unmarked) or perhaps was refreshed at shop (?)

Last edited by Jacknola; 08-21-2016 at 06:02 PM.
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  #4  
Old 08-22-2016, 07:36 AM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Very nice summing-up, Jack. You sure don't miss much. I can only contribute the following:

2-5: I put this more in the mid 50's. Rational being that the nut is an acorn. A Korean war era piece would have a separate washer and nut.

8-4: This knife is really unusual! It's the earliest "non-stag" handled 8-4 I have ever seen (I believe the material is black Micarta). Go back through the catalogs: This model is described as having a stag handle all the way through the 80's! I am not sure when the shop first agreed to provide a non stag handle on a Model 8, but this one is no later than '73 due to the 7 spacers. If it came up on ebay, I would bid on it.
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  #5  
Old 08-22-2016, 12:16 PM
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Great stuff Ron. For info, can you fill me in on when the small stamp was used on model 2s? This one seems to be the regular sized variant. Also, the choll narrowing is pretty extreme on this m-2. Is that any indicator of period of manufacture? I really am a novice in this early-mid 50s eras, but for some reason I keep wanting to make this a late Korean war relic.

That is pretty wild stuff about the 8-4, a model I know very little about. This 8-4 has a pre-1966 type 1 blade stamp. That doesn't mean it wasn't handled and sold some time later. The choll is a little strange to my eye. But if it is unmarked stainless, it would almost certainly date the knife to second half of 1963 would it not? That would be just before SS marking was introduced. It may have an ebony handle rather than Micarta, but it is pretty hard to distinguish.

For OP, re: value. Here is a link to E-bay, "vintage Randall knives" search. You will see a variety of knives with brown button Heisers and early baby-dots Johnson sheaths, from 1950-early 1960s. Most have a buy-it-now price that could give you an idea of what the asking price for this genre is.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...knife&_sacat=0

Last edited by Jacknola; 08-01-2017 at 04:29 PM.
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  #6  
Old 08-22-2016, 09:23 PM
Ta2bill Ta2bill is offline
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Jack, The small stamp designed for use with the Model 2 was first used in 1945. The Model 2-5" first hit the scene in 1950. I have a fine example of an early 50's here in a safe.
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  #7  
Old 08-23-2016, 08:32 AM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacknola View Post

Great stuff Ron. For info, can you fill me in on when the small stamp was used on model 2s?

Hunt has a pretty accurate write-up on the small stamp in his first book on page 184. Re the Model 2: It was a candidate for the small stamp when Bo created it in mid '45. "Sometime" in the 60's, Bo widened the width of the blades such that the larger stamp could be used for the 6, 7 & 8" lengths. The 5 & 4" lengths kept the small stamp.

This one seems to be the regular sized variant. I believe this one in question has the small stamp

Also, the choll narrowing is pretty extreme on this m-2. Is that any indicator of period of manufacture? I really am a novice in this early-mid 50s eras, but for some reason I keep wanting to make this a late Korean war relic.

The deeper choils on all models were flattened out in the early / mid 60's to "beef up" the strength for VN era use. The 5" Model 2 (Letter opener) was first introduced in the 1948 catalog. It stated there was no sheath available, but Moore did make some. Here is a pic of one of the first I've owned with one of those sheaths. Note also that the tang was peened on these early examples:



That is pretty wild stuff about the 8-4, a model I know very little about. This 8-4 has a pre-1966 type 1 blade stamp. That doesn't mean it wasn't handled and sold some time later. The choll is a little strange to my eye. But if it is unmarked stainless, it would almost certainly date the knife to second half of 1963 would it not? That would be just before SS marking was introduced. It may have an ebony handle rather than Micarta, but it is pretty hard to distinguish.

It has the shallowest choil of any Model 8 I've seen, but I think both the grind and the handle are legit. Since you say it has a pre-'66 stamp, I put it ~ '64-'65 given it has a baby dot sheath. I don't believe it's stainless and again I think the handle material is Micarta.


For OP, re: value. Here is a link to E-bay, "vintage Randall knives" search. You will see a variety of knives with brown button Heisers and early baby-dots Johnson sheaths, from 1950-early 1960s. Most have a buy-it-now price that could give you an idea of what the asking price for this genre is.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...knife&_sacat=0
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  #8  
Old 08-23-2016, 08:42 AM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Nice group of 2's, Bill.
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  #9  
Old 08-23-2016, 02:40 PM
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Reference, Bill's at top, Ron's middle, OP bottom.

Quote:
I believe this one in question has the small stamp
I tried to check using what tools available. using the graph paper background and measuring the length of the stamps it appears that the m-2 and m-8 seem to be about the same size. Strange? Am I correct in understanding that the main marker that ids the m-2 to mid'50s rather than early '50s is the retaining tang nut? Your example and Bill's nice knife look like the OP m-2 in other respects, at least to me, though the width of the spacers makes an interesting comparison.

I'm still struggling with the rationale of why someone would tote a 2-5 around as much as this one has been unless it were militarily related. The Heiser sheath is also interesting because I haven't seen that Heiser stamp in evidence much later on, but I am only conversant about that period, at best. Probably there is not a definitive answer unless something is documented.

The m-8 blade stamp is definitely type 1, pre early'66. If the handle is black Macarta, we would likely have a consensus of 1965 manufacture. If it is brown micarta, 1963-1965. If it is ebony, 1963-1966. This is splitting hairs, true, but we now have the dating tools, might as well apply them. The OP could help us by higher res picture or by telling us what the handle is made out of. LOL

Thanks Ron for your knowledge and input. As usual, Bill has an inexhaustible safe with a supply of excellent things...

Last edited by Jacknola; 08-01-2017 at 04:30 PM.
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  #10  
Old 08-23-2016, 04:37 PM
Ta2bill Ta2bill is offline
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I guess since Ian is only 5 minutes away from me, the best bet would be to meet up with him and get a hands on look at these babies.
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  #11  
Old 08-25-2016, 07:05 AM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacknola View Post

I tried to check using what tools available. using the graph paper background and measuring the length of the stamps it appears that the m-2 and m-8 seem to be about the same size. Strange? I have no idea why. Am I correct in understanding that the main marker that ids the m-2 to mid'50s rather than early '50s is the retaining tang nut? Yes Your example and Bill's nice knife look like the OP m-2 in other respects, at least to me, though the width of the spacers makes an interesting comparison.

I'm still struggling with the rationale of why someone would tote a 2-5 around as much as this one has been unless it were militarily related. A 2-5 is a good "bar knife". Small enough to be unobtrusive, but large enough to cause serious damage. The Heiser sheath is also interesting because I haven't seen that Heiser stamp in evidence much later on, but I am only conversant about that period, at best. Probably there is not a definitive answer unless something is documented. I've only seen it in the late 40's to the mid 50's. Very seldom. Here's a similar stamp on a Model 2 sheath that is no later than 1948 due to the rivets:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Randall-Made...QAAOSwdzVXlUs8

The m-8 blade stamp is definitely type 1, pre early'66. If the handle is black Macarta, we would likely have a consensus of 1965 manufacture. If it is brown micarta, 1963-1965. If it is ebony, 1963-1966. This is splitting hairs, true, but we now have the dating tools, might as well apply them. The OP could help us by higher res picture or by telling us what the handle is made out of. LOL I'm 99% sure it's black Micarta. I've seen a lot of black Micarta photos.
Thanks Ron for your knowledge and input. As usual, Bill has an inexhaustible safe with a supply of excellent things...

Last edited by BoBlade; 08-25-2016 at 07:25 AM.
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  #12  
Old 08-25-2016, 10:03 AM
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Jacknola Jacknola is offline
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While waiting/hoping for more better pictures or a report on handle, here is a poor picture of a 7-spacer Delrin-handled low-S knife, that may be a model 8 (?). I interpreted it to be 1964-65 vintage...which may indicate that some m-8s were being occasionally handled with other than stag in the mid 1960s.


Last edited by Jacknola; 08-01-2017 at 04:31 PM.
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  #13  
Old 08-25-2016, 11:32 AM
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My main interest lies is the broader Vietnam era, a time period that falls outside of the use of the small stamp. However, I'm bored, so I checked stamps on these two knives. The photos are unusual and useful because they are both taken on an engineering paper background which can be used to compare the knives more or less in scale... Here is what I found.





The stamps appear to be the same size... but with the caveat that this photo scaling is not precise. Actually I don't know just how much "smaller" the "small" stamp was. I Understand it was used from post WWII until the model 2 blade shape was changed in the early '60s. However the large stamp was apparently also used when possible...couple of examples in Hunt. This example may raise some questions... Truth is I haven't seen accurately scaled comparison of the "small" stamp to the standard stamp. Anyway, I thought this would be of interest to others.

Last edited by Jacknola; 08-01-2017 at 04:31 PM.
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  #14  
Old 08-27-2016, 01:58 PM
brucegodlesky brucegodlesky is offline
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I , for one, sure appreciate the time and effort you fellas put into apprising and IDing old Randall!!


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  #15  
Old 08-27-2016, 02:47 PM
jahn jahn is offline
 
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I second that Post!
regards,
jahn
owner of the Randall in question!
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